Obsession, scandal, and shifting loyalties put pressure on a lifelong friendship and a new relationship in Joey Kuhn’s erotic, arresting directorial debut. Budding artist Charlie (Jonathan Gordon) is so hung up on handsome, vain BFF Sebastian (Jason Ralph) that when asked to paint a self-portrait, he can only deliver yet another painting of his friend. In the wake of a scandal that envelops Sebastian after his Bernie Madoff-like father goes to jail, Charlie moves into Sebastian’s luxurious Manhattan apartment, the perfect setup for getting closer to the object of his affection. But Sebastian is like a mirage, always just out of reach; so when Charlie meets Tim (Haaz Sleiman)—a Lebanese concert pianist, older settled in contrast to Sebastian’s chaos—Charlie is intrigued as well as attracted. Sebastian’s ensuing jealousy presents Charlie with a life-altering question: Should he maintain the status quo in the hopes that his feelings will someday be reciprocated, or should he pursue something real with his hot new man? “Those People” closely observes the social milieu in which the story is set, Charlie and Sebastian’s tight group of friends, and the changing nature of a friendship once a third party appears on the scene. Its privileged characters evoke Whit Stillman’s films, but Kuhn is a more tactile, visceral director. “Those People’s” great strengths are in its committed performances, the sultry chemistry between the three leads, and the passion at the heart of a decidedly uneven romantic triangle.

“Those People” will be shown at Frameline39 San Francisco International LGBTQ Film Festival Friday, June 19 at 9:30 p.m. at the Castro Theatre. Director Joey Kuhn, Actors Britt Lower, Haaz Sleiman, Jonathan Gordon, Producer Kimberly Parker are expected to attend.

In this exclusive interview, www.gaysonoma.com caught up with Director Joey Kuhn.

What was the inspiration for the film’s plot?

I created the story and the characters about four years ago with a very talented friend of mine, Grainne Belluomo. We knew we wanted to tell a coming of age story for a group of friends who should have come of age five years ago. Charlie was our anchor and loosely based on me. In college, I accidentally fell in love with my gay best friend and kept it secret from him for years, afraid of ruining the friendship (and of rejection). So I based Charlie and Sebastian’s friendship on the longstanding unrequited love I had for my friend. Sebastian’s ostentatious voice is based on him, but his situation came from another source. I was drawn to the story of Mark Madoff, Bernie Madoff’s son who killed himself two years after his father went to prison – a man whose life was ruined for something he presumably did not do. I knew I didn’t want to make Sebastian the main character though. Instead, I wanted to explore that character through the eyes of someone who loved him – someone who was blinded by his love. It was also important to me to make a movie with authentic representations of gay men my age, which I rarely see onscreen. I didn’t want to tell another coming out story.

Talk about writing a screenplay that works on every level.

Like most screenwriters, I do a lot of work before I start writing actual scenes. I do writing exercises to get in the head of the characters, and then I put scene and image ideas on index cards. I’m a huge fan of structure and outlining. I’ll map out the script first, identifying my inciting incident, midpoint, traditional act breaks, and other major plotpoints. Then I’ll usually start writing dialogue sketches or first drafts of scenes – all handwritten in notebooks. I think better hand to paper. Once I feel like I have a good scene, I’ll put it into Final Draft.

Rewriting is where the real fun begins. I love rewriting because that’s when the script gets richer. I start bringing out themes, planting seeds that will pay off later, and cutting dialogue wherever possible. Writing a first draft is like pulling teeth sometimes, but I find rewriting to be such a joy. This one took a lot of rewrites because it was so personal. When I started the script, I was still in love with my friend, and by the end of process, I was over him. So I gained a greater perspective on Charlie, as I got further away from him emotionally.

As both writer and director of “Those People” do you see complete images as you’re writing and how do those images change once you’re on the set?

I definitely think of images before and during the writing process. I love visuals, and sometimes a scene will come out of an image I have in my head. Because I’m a director and have also done a lot of editing, I’ll think of coverage/shots while I’m writing the scene. I try to convey the type of shot it is through the stage directions without explicitly saying “Wide shot” or “ECU.” In terms of how these things change, my directing teacher at NYU used to say prepare as much as possible and then stay open. You do as much planning as you can, in terms of shotlisting, choosing locations, working with the production designer, etc, but you have to be able to let some of those things go when you get on set. For instance, the climactic roof scene at the end of the film was never intended to take place during a blizzard. Instead of pushing the shoot, we decided to film in the snow and let it enhance the emotion of the scene. I think the scene is even more beautiful because of it. It’s also impossible to nail down shots until you block the scene with the actors, on the day, in the actual location. We didn’t have any rehearsal time in advance of the shoot, so we discovered a lot on set.

How many folks do you show your screenplay to during the writing and re-writing process and how open are you to both criticism and suggestions?

One of the best things I learned in film school was that you can’t (and shouldn’t) listen to everybody. Luckily, I have a great group of filmmaker friends and teachers from grad school whose opinions I trust. There are about 4 or 5 people to whom I regularly sent drafts. I also did 4 small readings of the script for 10-20 people along the way after major rewrites. I am very open to criticism and welcome it wholeheartedly, but it is always important to remember what you, the screenwriter, is trying to do. Everyone has an opinion on what the movie should be, especially with other filmmakers.

It seems you share much in common with the lead character Charlie.  How are you alike and how are you different?

Charlie’s character and voice are similar to me, 5 years ago. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from my writing teacher, Mick Casale. He said if your main character is based on you, the screenwriter (which happens often in first features), you have to take away something you know as the writer, so the character can learn that piece of information by the end. Charlie has to learn who he is, independently of other people, and how to put himself first sometimes. I think I’m more extroverted than Charlie, but equally bad at hitting on guys in bars. One major difference between me and Charlie is that while Charlie has no relationship with his absent father, I am lucky enough to have a father who is loving and supportive. Nonetheless, I have always been drawn to stories of fathers and sons in film, and I loved exploring that dynamic through each of the three main gay characters (Charlie, Sebastian, and Tim).

The main characters are enriched by compelling backstories and many interesting layers that are revealed as the story progresses.  Would you consider this a character-driven film and is that how you prefer to tell your stories?

I guess I would consider this a character-driven film, but shouldn’t all good films be character-driven? I can’t imagine writing a film without creating layered, interesting characters first, or at least in the rewriting process. Additionally, I come up with backstories for all my characters. I think each character should be as fleshed out in your head as the main character. I also base most of my characters on people I know, so I can write with a distinct voice in my head.

Your lead actors are all very talented and bring amazing depth to the film.  Talk about how you managed to find and cast such wonderful actors.

We were lucky enough to have the incredible Susan Shopmaker as our casting director. She prescreened actors, and then brought in the best to audition for me. I think we did two months of auditions. She has the most incredible eye for talent, and I trust her taste. We did callbacks, and then chemistry reads with different Charlie’s, Sebastian’s, and Tim’s. For Charlie and Sebastian, it came down to two very talented, but very different pairs. When Jon (“Charlie”) and Jason (“Sebastian”) got in the room together for the first time, it was pure magic. They read two scenes together – the scene where Charlie shows Sebastian the portrait he’s painted of him, and the Halloween confrontation scene. They seemed like they had known each other for years. I remember I giddily sent the tape to my producer, Kim Parker, and she watched it in the production office with our line producer, Melissa, and our UPM, Stephanie. They freaked out over the tape of Jon and Jason. I knew if three grown-ass women loved watching these actors explore this gay friendship, they were the right choice. And we cast Haaz (“Tim”) just three days before filming! I cast the amazing Britt Lower (“Ursula”) off an audition tape she sent in from LA! Chris Conroy (“Wyatt”) was one of the first people to audition for the movie. And I knew Meghann Fahy was the perfect “London” after she read with Jonathan. I just wanted to hug them both, they were so damn cute.

Chemistry is always of great concern when a relationship is explored on film.  What’s your secret as a director for recognizing that certain special spark between actors and then capturing it on film?

Well, I made sure I saw it in the chemistry reads first. On set, I just tried to create an environment where the actors feel safe, that allowed them to play. The whole ensemble loved hanging out between scenes anyway. I was lucky enough to cast not just amazing actors, but amazing people and collaborators.

“Those People” is populated by many familiar faces.  What was it like working with such up-and-comers?

It was amazing. We didn’t have any divas or big egos on set, so everyone was on the same page. I was never happier than when I was on set directing my actors. I was incredibly sad when the shoot was over. I wish I could work with them all on every project moving forward. Troop THOSE PEOPLE!

Your film blends humor, romance, and drama in a most effective manner.  How did you manage to seamlessly move from one to the other?

Thank you! My favorite movies blend tones in that manner, so it’s what I’m drawn to naturally. I think most life situations move from one to another at the drop of a hat, so I think it’s impossible not to write scenes like that. I wanted to inject humor into some of the more dramatic scenes to keep it from going too far over into melodrama. The actors always brought authenticity to scenes, whether they were dramatic or comedic, so the scenes feel like they belong in the same movie. My editor, Sara Shaw, and I also spent a lot of time in the editing room making sure the tone never veered off track. Sometimes I would love a performance moment, and Sara would be like “NOPE! Too theatrical,” or “Nope, he looks like he’s trying to be funny.” So thank god for Sara’s extra high barometer for truth.

How did you go about getting the production funded?

My producers, Kim and Sarah, and I spent seven or eight months raising funds and asking people for money. There were a lot of panic attacks on the floor.

Tell us about the talented crew that helped you bring your film to life.  Are they a combination of seasoned professionals, longtime colleagues, and bright young things?

My crew was a mix of all of the above. Mitchell Travers, has been assisting on big films in wardrobe, but this was his first feature as the lead costume designer – and he knocked it out of the park! On the other hand, my script supervisor, Veronica Lupu, is an industry veteran. But the thing I’m most proud of is that my closest collaborators – lead producer (Kimberly Parker), cinematographer (Leonardo D’Antoni), and editor (Sara Shaw), are all classmates of mine from NYU Tisch Grad Film. It’s nice for us all to be going through this together. Kim, Leo, and I used to joke that if we couldn’t raise all the money, we would just make the movie with the three of us and a group of actors. Coming from NYU, that’s what we were used to doing anyway, having made many directing exercises together.

Will this be your first time presenting a film at Frameline?  Tell us what being part of the famed festival means to you as an out filmmaker?

Yes, this will be my first time at Frameline! I have been looking forward to screening at the festival since I made the film. And to be screening at the Castro Theater, with such an incredible history, is sort of beyond comprehension. I’ve never been to San Francisco, and this seems like the best way to first experience the city. So many of my friends from the West Coast have told me “Oh my god, you’re screening at the Castro?! I saw MILK (the Gus Van Sant film) there!” I swear, if I’ve learned anything from the last few months, it’s that everyone saw MILK at the Castro.

You’ve shown your feature at other festivals.  What has been the reaction to the film and how do you react to both praise and criticism?

The reaction has been pretty fantastic! I’m overjoyed people are so enamored with the performances, because I love my actors and am so proud of them. People also like to tell me stories about their own “Sebastian,” and how much the film touched them. It’s amazing to sit in a theater and hear the audience laughing at the right parts and crying at the end. People have commented a lot on how much they love the look of the film. I set out to make a visually arresting film with a distinct look, and I’m glad audiences are recognizing Leo’s amazing cinematography. In terms of the criticism – In both the writing and editing of the film, the character of Sebastian was difficult for a lot of people. A big part of the process was playing with where to put that line of unlikeability, and playing with the audience’s feelings towards him. He was never meant to be purely good or purely bad, but he is the unknowing villain of the film in some ways. Anyway, I’ll never forget, my producer Sarah Bremner said to me “Joey, you’re never going to be able to please everyone. And if you try to do that, your movie will be bad. You just have to be okay with some people hating your movie.” It was incredibly freeing, and I always try to remember that.

What modes of distribution are you considering for “Those People?”

We don’t have distribution yet, so cross your fingers! In an ideal world, we’d get some sort of theatrical distribution first, even if it’s only in two cities. But Kim and I just want people to see it, whether it be on Netflix, iTunes, or VOD.

Talk a bit about your education and when you decided you wanted to become a filmmaker.

I’ve known I wanted to be a filmmaker since I was thirteen or so. I loved acting in elementary school, but once I hit puberty, I was like “Oh god, I can’t be in front of people.” So I turned my focus to behind the scenes. I’ve been making short films ever since. I actually learned how to shoot on film and edit on a Steenbeck, cutting and splicing the film together with my hands. I did some filmmaking during undergrad at Brown as well, all on 16mm film. My teacher there, Leslie Thornton, is a great experimental filmmaker, so it allowed us to really play and explore. It was usually me with a camera, with my friends as the actors. But it wasn’t until graduate film school at NYU Tisch, where I really learned how to write and structure a script and how to direct actors. The amazing thing about the grad film program at Tisch is that you learn how to do all crew positions. You’re the DP on one shoot, and then you’re the sound person on another, and then you’re an Assistant Director on the next. So we really come out of the program understanding all aspects of the filmmaking process. We also had to take acting classes, so you understand what type of direction resonates. At NYU Tisch, I was lucky to have been part of a phenomenally collaborative, inspiring, and supportive class. Out of the 34 people in my class, I think 12 of us have made features. It’s truly because we all collaborate and push each other.

Who are your favorite filmmakers and how have they influenced your work?

My all-time favorite movie is Bob Fosse’s “Cabaret.” Leo and I actually drew a lot of visual inspiration from that film for “Those People,” namely the color palette and the use of zooms. We shot most of “Those People” on a huge zoom lens from the 1970s to give it a more classic aesthetic. My second favorite movie is Anthony Minghella’s “The Talented Mr. Ripley.” Not only is it a visual feast – The locations! The clothes! – but I love that the protagonist is a killer, and the audience is supposed to identify emotionally with him. That movie is probably the one that made me want to be a filmmaker. It also made me fall in love with Italy, jazz music, and Jude Law.

But my favorite filmmaker is Woody Allen. His films have such a remarkable tone, nimbly jumping from comedy to drama within scenes. And no one writes dialogue like Woody Allen. My favorite films by him are “Manhattan,” “Interiors,” and “Hannah and Her Sisters.” I’m incredibly influenced by his writing and the way he covers his scenes, often in long developing takes. Often when I’m writing a scene and it’s getting too cheesy or boring or dramatic, I’ll think “how would Woody Allen write this?”

Tell us about your previous films.

This is my first feature! The first major short film I made at NYU, “Thinly Veiled,” was also based on my unrequited love for my gay best friend from college. I made the short film my second year in grad school, when I was still head over heels in love with him. That summer after I completed the film, I flew to India (where he lives), and on the last night of my stay there, I was like “Surprise! I’m in love with you, and I made this short film based on us.” That was an interesting night, to say the least. Poor guy – I was like the extreme version of the emo guy in high school who writes a song on his guitar for his crush. Anyway, through the making of “Those People,” I can confidently say I’ve finally moved on from him.

What advice would you offer filmmakers out there who are plugging away to make their film, tell their story?

I would say to make films that you want to see, not what you think you should be making. Tell the stories you want to tell, not the one you think is going to get you into a festival. It’s also important to find your people. I feel lucky to have found great friends whose opinions I trust, and who are going through the same thing. As I said, my classmates all support and push each other. You can find that with or without film school.

What’s next for you?

I’m working on a new feature script right now that’s a family drama in 1970s Miami Beach, as well as a TV miniseries script about a group of gay friends in NYC over several decades. But eventually, I want to do a movie musical. Sondheim’s “Company” would be the dream.

Joey, congratulations once again and I wish you the very best for ”Those People” and look forward to your next film.

Thank you so much for the thoughtful questions and kind words, Gary! Happy Pride!

In director Mikki del Monico’s “Alto”Rising singer-songwriter Francesca “Frankie” Del Vecchio (Diana DeGarmo) is engaged to her promising musical career and to frozen-food entrepreneur Tony, happily devoted in equal measure to traditional Italian-American culture, her famiglia, and Mom’s lasagna. Frankie’s bella vita is perfectly peaceful—until a dead body shows up in the trunk of her rental car. Obsessed with the exploitative (and hugely popular) TV show Mob Hit, Frankie’s sister Heather convinces Frankie to attend the mafioso’s wake, setting off a string of fateful introductions to the real mobsters in their midst. The entrancingly seductive Nicolette, the daughter of newly minted mob don Caesar, takes a particular interest in Frankie and her music, paving the way to commercial success and an unexpected love interest. Which path will Frankie choose? And what’s up with the feds suddenly tracking her every move? What family secrets will be revealed along the way? Has everyone gone oobatz? This buoyant and boisterous debut feature from director Mikki del Monico—executive produced by Ellora DeCarlo, produced by Toni D’Antonio, and co-produced by and featuring Annabella Sciorra (The Hand That Rocks the Cradle), filmed in New York City by award-winning cinematographer Valentina Caniglia, scored with original music from Antigone Rising and Ace Young, and showcasing a star-making performance from American Idol runner up Diana DeGarmo—will rock its way into your heart.

“Alto” will be showan at the Roxie Theatre Tuesday, June 23 at 9:30 p.m. at Frameline39: The San Francisco International LGBTQ Film Festival (which started off back in 1977 with one evening of short Super8 films projected on a bedsheet) runs from June 18-28 at five different Bay Area venues including the landmark Castro Theatre.

We caught up with Mikki as he prepares to head our way for his exciting Frameline premier.

Congratulations on “Alto” which is a sexy and hysterically funny lesbian rom-com. How did the story come to you?

The story started with a character. I always knew she was a musician. A lot of my friends are musicians, and I would go home from their shows so inspired. I had blasts of creativity. Not that the story directly came out of that, but there were a couple songs that helped me bring out the themes of the story: in the early days, the song, Desire (by Marilyn D’Amato), and later, Everywhere is Home (by Nini Camps and Daniel Tashian), both of which made it into the final cut, re-sung by Diana DeGarmo. The other part of the Alto equation was my Italian-American upbringing and that of some of my friends. I knew and understood these characters. I appreciated them.

Alto, the title, refers of course to the lead character being a musician but also, it was a play on The Sopranos. Italian-Americans actors get a lot of work as Mafiosi—we know those stories as part of our American cinematic history—and I didn’t want to shy away from that, at the same time as I wanted to showcase alternative stories of Italian-American life. I wanted to take the mobster genre and the romantic comedy genre and give both a fresh face. I wanted real people, not caricatures.
My use of the Mafia in this film was as intentional as the use of comedy. While I see the shadow Cosa Nostra casts on the many Italian Americans who have no part in it, I wanted to acknowledge that something besides its criminal element has cemented its place in the American psyche: the idea that in a culture that venerates the individual, there is a way to celebrate family and find a secure place within it—a sense of belonging—while still leaving the question mark of uniqueness enough room to materialize.

One of the lead characters is a musician and her music figures prominently, which almost qualifies “Alto” a musical. How did you go about incorporating great tunes into the story?

I love that you ask this question early on because music is definitely another character in the movie. There are two separate identities: the original songs and the score. Sometimes they feed each other, and other times are almost in counterpoint, but as a whole, they help create the mood of the story. I made sure the film would work without music, but one of the most fun parts of working on this film was my work with the composer, Thom Rotella, and the selection of original songs from the likes of Marilyn D’Amato, Nini Camps, Antigone Rising (Nini Camps is the lead singer and also played Kat—the bass player—in Alto), Ace Young, Trina Hamlin, Scout, and others, as well as Musicàntica, who gave us that wonderful folk music for the pizzica dance scene.

I don’t know how deep you want to get into the music, but Thom and I spent time talking about how we wanted to create music that accented the Italian roots of the film while not banging people over the head with it. So he used classical guitars, mandolins, and several other instruments that you’d find in southern Italian folk songs.

I should also mention that Natalie Knepp, who plays Nicolette, actually plays the harp. It’s her harp we use in the film. Later when Diana DeGarmo’s character, Frankie, sings a cappella, I thought of that folk song as an answer to Nicolette’s harp. It’s not something I need other people to pick up consciously, but I think unconsciously, it enriches that moment.

We’re working on a soundtrack now. In addition, I’ve been writing “Alto the Musical” for the stage. It’s something I’ve thought about almost since I first wrote the script, but it took making the movie to realize that I actually had more of the material I wanted to mine, ways that the story hasn’t exhausted itself and its usefulness because the stage and musical theater offers different ways to learn from story. Coincidentally, it happens that Diana DeGarmo (and her husband, Ace Young) have years of experience on Broadway, off-Broadway, and national stages. So does Lin Tucci (Mrs. Cappelletti), who you can see on  ‘Orange is the New Black. ‘

Talk about your process as a screenwriter. How quickly are you able to get your ideas expressed on the page? What is your approach to re-writes?

So I wrote the first draft of this story in two or three weeks, but wow, the rewrites. I actually like rewriting. That’s where you really get to find the story. I try to work through rewrites by focusing each time on a few different items. I can’t rewrite everything at once without something suffering, so instead—if I have the time—I write my way out of problems. I created the problem so I believe the solution is also inside me somewhere. That doesn’t mean, however, that I lock myself up. I listen to critiques, I listen to what people like, and then I get quiet and listen to myself.

As both writer and director of “Alto” do you see complete images as you’re writing and how do those images change once you’re on the set?

When I first read this question, I had to laugh. I thought of all the challenges and hurdles throughout so yes…I mean, hell yeah, those images changed on set! I’d say that’s the nature of low-budget filmmaking, but I think that’s the nature of filmmaking period. I do see images when I’m writing. That’s all I see, but they’re not complete because they can’t be. In order to make a film, I think a shooting script has to leave room for change. I didn’t know I was going to direct Alto when I wrote it so initially, I was leaving space for another person, a director, to interpret those images. What happened on set was that Mikki the director showed up and combined with enormous talent from the cast and crew so that we could get the visual pieces of the puzzle we needed to make a finished film.

How many folks do you show your screenplay to during the writing and re-writing process and how open are you to both criticism and suggestions?

I may have answered this already, but I’m extremely open to critique. Even when I don’t agree with it, I try to see what made the person feel that way. I’m not one of those writers who feels precious about every word or every scene. I have a background in editing, so I took those skills to heart. Writing a script that works means you keep carving till you get your David.

The main characters are enriched by compelling backstories and many interesting layers that are revealed as the story progresses. Would you consider this a character-driven film and is that how you prefer to tell your stories?

Yes and definitely :). I know people who think of a great story and then find the characters to populate it. I’m not one of them. It’s not a preference, just the way my process works. It isn’t that I have to know what toothpaste my character uses. I need to know what my character sees when he or she looks at the world. I have to know what that character cares about, so the questions I ask myself focus on that.

Your lead actors are all very talented and bring amazing depth to the film. Talk about how you managed to find and cast such wonderful actors.

My producer, Toni D’Antonio, also worked as the casting agent. She’s worked as one previously and has been in the New York acting world for more than twenty years, so she knew where to put ads. She had also worked for years at Endeavor Studios, which provides studio space for auditions, among other things, so Toni just knew a ton of really talented New York actors. We auditioned every role with SAG actors. That was something that Toni and I discussed and knew we wanted to quality that came from experience. Because of that, some of the decisions were difficult. Such talent out there. Toni had known Annabella Sciorra through her work after Hurricane Sandy. Both gave a lot of their time to help rebuild the affected areas. Annabella read the script and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to work with her. Our supporting actors I could talk about all day long, but I’ll give you the shortened version: David Valcin from Person of Interest came in to read for the role of Bellafusco, but he truly owned the role of Mike del Vecchio, Frankie’s dad. Lou Martini, Jr. (Chinzano) has been a part of Alto since a very early reading. He still auditioned, which showed me how much of a generous actor he is. He gives so much, every take, and still manages to make you laugh in between each one. Melanie Minichino (Heather), who is one of our few LA-based actors, was also part of the equation from an early reading. She auditioned as well, but truly, the part was hers to lose. That character in particular, because it’s the only one directly based on a family member, had to get the tone right, and I think Melanie nails it. She’s an unintentional scene stealer, in the best way possible. That was reinforced when I was talking with Jake Robards (Tony) today. I have outtakes of Melanie, Jake, and Diana just losing it with laughter from something Melanie either did or said. Jake is someone that Toni had known from the world of voice-overs, and he had that ability to create the kind of guy who took the idea of frozen lasagna seriously, yet still make that guy invested enough to feel hurt deeply. Anthony J. Gallo (Gagoots) carried that understated presence that gave a nice balance of humor and perilous candor that the character needed. Wow, I haven’t even gotten to Billy Wirth, another LA-based actor. Like many, I knew him from Lost Boys, but Billy is an incredibly intense actor. He brought a true exploration of that character to the set each day. As a director, I couldn’t ask for more. So I purposely saved our two leads for last because that is how we cast them…LAST! I know, completely backwards from how it usually goes, but we built our cast as an ensemble. So we were maybe two weeks out, and I wasn’t seeing anyone that made me feel like yes, that’s Frankie or yes, that’s Nicolette. Natalie Knepp came in to read for Frankie. Ellora DeCarlo, Alto’s executive producer, looked over at us and said, “How about having her read for Nicolette?” Natalie will tell you that she knew she wasn’t right for the Frankie role and had prepared for Nicolette, but either way, she was definitely the person to bring depth and breadth to that role. Natalie has great comedic timing, too, and the person who played Nicolette had to be able to infuse a subtle layer of humor into the performance to stay true to the tone of the film. Now, Diana DeGarmo. She’s a very special person. This was her first starring role in a film, and she gave it her all. I would give Diana a note and bam, next take, she had it. Like all the actors, she mixed a respect for the words on the page with a playful sense of inquiry…and on top of that, you could sometimes find her steaming not just her own but other cast member’s clothes. Talk about a team player. So much respect for her talent, as an actor and a singer. Anyone who’d seen her on American Idol will know that it’s her voice adding to the musicality of the film.
Chemistry is always of great concern when a relationship is explored on film. What’s your secret as a director for recognizing that certain special spark between actors and then capturing it on film?

Diana DeGarmo shared a manager with Richie Allan, who plays the priest, and late in the casting process, Toni was on the phone one day with Richie’s manager, who asked if we’d cast our lead and whether we’d considered Diana. No, we hadn’t, but we certainly would. Diana happened to be in NYC at the time doing a reading, so we asked her to come in and do a “chemistry read” with Natalie. A chemistry read is exactly what it sounds like: an opportunity to see if two people have the elusive “it” — that dynamic magnetism and tender tension that make people believe in the power of love. Recognizing it is easier than capturing it, but if it’s palpable, as a director, you’ll find it. So I’ll set the scene. In attendance: Diana, Natalie, Ace (Diana’s husband), Ellora DeCarlo (our EP), Toni D’Antonio (producer), and me. I had chosen a few scenes, but to tell you the truth, I really only needed the one: the first kiss. Toni, Ellora, and I were seated across a high-top table from Diana and Natalie. Ace was sitting to the side. When they kissed, my first thought was, sweet. They’d bumped noses in that awkward way you do when you’re kissing someone new, and though I knew I’d never be able to recreate it, I also knew I didn’t need to, because my next thought was: wow, hot…and I was far from the only one in the room who thought so. We finished the scene, said our good-byes and as soon as they were out the door, I said to Toni, “Call their agents, managers, whatever. We’re cast.” Now, what I didn’t know till later was that Natalie, Diana, and Ace had walked out together. Natalie said, “See you on set.” Diana replied, “Well, yeah, I mean, I hope so. I don’t know.” True to Natalie, she said, “Were you just in the same audition as I was because we killed it in there.” And there you have it. Capturing it is just a matter of using the raw materials in front of you and staying out of the way. Create a comfortable atmosphere that allows the actors to bring it.

“Alto” is populated by many familiar faces. What was it like working with such seasoned performers?

It allowed me to take chances. I could give a note and know that if it didn’t work for the scene, the actor would be able to adjust. We didn’t have a lot of time for each take and coverage was not always an option, so with seasoned actors, I also had the confidence to play some scenes in a one-shot. We covered a lot of ground and a lot of pages in a total of 21 days (18 original and then went back in for 3 more), and as a first-time director, these actors gave me confidence. They built off each other, and were able to bring nuances to the characters that less-seasoned performances often lack.

Your film finds humor in many situations without resorting to sophomoric humor. Do you have a background in comedy or did you learn from those master cinematic comics and the directors who are known for delivering the big laughs?

I learned humor first in kitchens and back yards and front porches, meaning I learned from the people around me. I didn’t have comedians around me per se; I had people who took life as it came and found the humor in it. I think I learned from that how to laugh at myself. I was the kid who read Dr. Seuss and Camus on the same night, so I think my humor is definitely infused with a healthy dose of recognizing the absurdity of this thing we call life.

This is the point at which Alto begins: la famiglia…for many Italian-Americans, a source of great pride and responsibility, as well as a repository for allthe complicated emotions evolving from that. Admittedly, I was thinking of my family from the first draft. Their hard work and sacrifice, through generations, made my life possible.

As an Italian-American, I was taught that my life experiences are not all about me. It just so happens, some of those lessons are the stuff of comedy. Alto is, first and foremost, a love letter to the people who made me: for the hours they dedicated to my upbringing and to the communities in which they lived. Through them, I learned that what matters in the world is simple but getting there is not. Alto emerged from a place that knew both. It emerged from family.

How did you go about getting the production funded?

Alto almost didn’t happen…many times over. Toni had optioned the material about 7 years ago, and picture yourself at the end of the year, evaluating and re-evaluating. She was having one of those moments, talking to her husband and saying that she probably needed to let the option on Alto go, that she’d tried and tried to get it funded and didn’t know where else to turn. According to her, she was about to let it go when she said, she just couldn’t. Alto was in her heart, and so she called me and said, let’s just try Kickstarter. If we can raise $50K seed money, that will be enough to entice some private investors and we’ll make the movie. We just will. Who can argue with that kind of determination? So we held a campaign, exceeded our goal by a couple grand, and based on that success, our executive producer Ellora DeCarlo was able to bring in private investors. To Toni’s credit as a producer, she got us access to a lot of fantastic locations and as mentioned before, we were determined to use SAG actors…and I lost count of the number of speaking roles, but there were a LOT, and Toni will tell you, we made this on “spit and a band-aid.” I don’t think either of us can ask anyone for a favor for the next ten years.
Tell us about the talented crew that helped you bring your film to life. Are they a combination of seasoned professionals, longtime colleagues, and bright young things?

This is another question I’m really glad you asked. Money was definitely a factor in hiring crew so we did have a fair share of folks on set who lacked a ton of professional experience. That said, we did have experience in some key crew positions and many hard-working PAs. We had about ten different first ACs, some more experienced than others, because it was hard to get folks to work for more than a few days in that role for what we could offer. This made it more difficult for my very seasoned director of photography, the award-winning Valentina Caniglia, AIC-IMAGO, who truly made magic with very modest lighting and equipment packages, and limited crew support. Valentina and I didn’t have much time to prepare. She came onboard only weeks before we were scheduled to shoot. I’d been working with a DP, doing pre-production, but there were some budgetary issues and we wound up having to let him go. Toni is great because when she brings me a problem, she also usually offers me a solution, or at least options for one. Through our line producer, Graziano Bruni, who’d been with the project since the beginning, we gained access to Valentina. She and I talked about palette, about my desire to use the rich colors of fall: the ambers, crimsons, burnt orange, that sort of thing. I also didn’t want to shoot it like a broad comedy, with relatively flat lighting and a reliance on medium shots. We knew we weren’t going to have a lot of time for coverage but still needed to convey emotion, so we opted favoring a combination of long shots and close-ups as a stylistic choice.

We also had the kind of on-set support you often don’t hear about. Toni’s husband of 25 years, John, would wake up at 4 AM during the shoot to drive the rental truck, pick up gear, do whatever. I like to joke that we rewarded him with playing the role of a dead body stuffed in a pint-sized trunk. Toni’s cousin, Jimi, as well as John, made sure that people ate well! Ellora’s husband, Gary J. Cooper—yes, it’s his real name!—helped almost daily, crafting designs we needed for props and running to print stuff out in the middle of the night. My longtime friends, Marilyn D’Amato and Nini Camps, gave so much of their time and talents as well, both during production and post. So many people did. I should mention that Marilyn won a VisionFest award for Outstanding Achievement in Production Design.

I also wound up editing Alto. (We’d hired an editor, paid him, and then been so disappointed with the result that I started over, from scratch.) It wound up being for the best. I’d had previous experience editing independent features but it was the combination of comedy and heart that was so important to get right. I reworked Alto till my eyes bled, and I mention it because I wrote Alto on the page, I re-worked it as a director, and then put the finishing touches on in the editing. I knew the film was in there but it took a number of rough cuts, screening for some folks who gave honest and valuable feedback, and then having a willingness to take risks with the raw materials.

I also want to mention the great folks at Post Factory NYC, who worked with us on color correcting and in so many incredible ways to get the final product that we have today. Oddly enough, our sound engineer, Keith Hodne, actually grew up in the neighborhood where we’d shot a number of scenes (Marine Park, Brooklyn), so he felt a particular kinship with the material.
Will this be your first time presenting a film at Frameline? Tell us what being part of the famed festival means to you as an out filmmaker?

Yes, this is my first time presenting a film at Frameline! When we got the news we’d been accepted, I kind of just stood there, stunned, in the best way I could be. To be invited to this festival means a sort of visibility for the film that we couldn’t get in other locations, a unique combination of a rich Italian American history and LGBT community all in one city. In addition, the professionals who coordinate Frameline and make it run have been so responsive and on top of everything. I was recently at a festival where filmmakers didn’t even receive a badge so we had no way to identify anyone, our film wasn’t introduced, and I felt completely invisible. Frameline has felt like the complete opposite, and I couldn’t be more excited for this opportunity to be a part of it, not only for my own film but for the chance to meet other filmmakers and see their movies. I see the care and love that goes into putting this festival together. People at Frameline love film and they love filmmakers. It’s an honor to be part of the magic.
You’ve shown your feature at other festivals. What has been the reaction to the film and how do you react to both praise and criticism?

Alto was always intentionally a movie to make people laugh, and through humor, help heal the wounds that separate us, particularly from those we love.

I think it’s important to lead with that because my experience has been that Alto has been extremely well-received by audiences but often a tough sell with programmers and judges. I think a good part of that is possibly a bias against comedies as being serious pieces of work. I made the film for people to enjoy so winning or even being a finalist for an Audience Award means so much to me. It means I did my job. I do think it’s a mistake to think that comedies are easy to make. Thankfully, our actors have been recognized with nominations for their performances and with enthusiastic applause from audiences and praise from other professionals in the business.

I do want to mention the importance of respecting criticism. You don’t have to believe it and you certainly can’t make it personal, but you do have to ask yourself what it is they’re reacting to. If it’s a particular vehement response, I consider that it might not be about the film at all but about something getting triggered in the other person. In any case, as a filmmaker, you need to bring your self-confidence “A game” to bat for the entire filmmaking team. It’s easy to go only where the love is, but growth happens when you inch past comfort zones.

What manners of distribution are you considering for “Alto?”

We have been picked up for distribution by Cinema Libre. They took Alto to their sales booth at Cannes this year and are in talks with international markets as well as working on a digital roll-out plan for the States. People can sign up at http://www.altothemovie.com/contact.html to get updates.

Talk a bit about your education and when you decided you wanted to become a filmmaker.

Oddly, I went back and got an Associate’s Degree AFTER receiving my Bachelor’s because I wanted to get involved in music management. After one semester, the school closed their music program and offered people the chance to continue in their video production degree track. I took it, wrote my first screenplay, learned how to use digital cameras and digital editing systems, and made a living for a while as an independent editor. A roommate at the time suggested I apply to graduate school, which I’d never even considered. I was living in NYC then, and so I applied to Columbia University, from where I then got my MFA. I tell this because although I have written since I was a child and have always written visually, I kind of wandered into filmmaking as a profession. I want people to know that there are a thousand pathways that lead to being a filmmaker, but the only certain one is to make something. Learn from your mistakes and then make something else. Learn from THOSE mistakes and make another something else. They’re not all going to be feature films unless you have access to large supplies of money on a regular basis, but education comes in lots of ways. I appreciate the formal training I got but just as important for me was growing as a human being. When I decided to become a filmmaker, I was actually saying, yes, I can handle rejection, disappointment, criticism, and nay-sayers, and I can do so in a way that brings something valuable to the world.

In the end, I wanted to make a film that would break through the differences between people and encourage authentic lives. When I considered what I’d written—a character whose planned life disintegrates when she questions what she’ll do to stay true to herself—it felt impossible to explore the story thoroughly without acknowledging the creative pressure inside me to do so, and it felt impossible to explore that creative pressure without letting it push me into the world. Through directing this film, I found a voice willing to expand beyond what I previously found comfortable.

I say this because during the process of making this lesbian mob rom-com, I came out to my family as transgender. I’d tied myself up in knots for years because I didn’t want to hurt them. Instead, they gave me the gift of any great family: their love. I am very fortunate in that respect, but I became a filmmaker in order to save myself. I needed to express myself creatively rather than destructively, and my hope is that I can share what I’ve learned along the way. I didn’t know any transgender filmmakers at the time, but after watching Lana Wachowski’s HRC acceptance speech for the first time last year (even though it was recorded in October, 2012), I wrote and told her how it had given me hope and strength, and you know what, she wrote back. It meant a lot and I keep the card in my work area to remind me that making a movie is a gift and none of it should be taken for granted.

You have an impressive resume with much work as a script researcher. How much research went into creating “Alto?”

I love working as a researcher. It gives me the chance to find great stories and great characters while learning about things I might never otherwise hear about, but for how much research went into Alto? Actually, not a whole lot. I wrote it AFTER I’d written a script which won both a Sloan Screenwriting Award and their Production Grant, and let me tell you, that one, I researched a ton, creating a fictional disease and a fictional (but believable) cure…and I’m not a scientist. In fact, it was my intense research on that project that made me want to write a story I DIDN’T have to research. I did do some, on Italian folk dances and music, but that was after the story was already on the page.

What advice would you offer filmmakers out there who are plugging away to make their film, tell their story?

My advice: don’t give up. If you don’t give up, eventually, you make your movie. You absolutely cannot let NO stand in your way. You have to treat it like a bad blind date and move on. You have to look at the big picture and set smaller goals along the way. I would also say, take care of yourself emotionally. Learn some self-care skills because if you try to make an independent film without them, you might just be the hole that sinks the ship instead of its fearless captain. As a filmmaker, you set the tone, and if you don’t know how to deal with your own stress, you’ll rain that down on everyone around you. The other component of that is self-forgiveness because I can tell you, you’re not going to do it perfectly. You are going to fail, sometimes more publicly than others, but learn the art of giving yourself a break. It will help you give others one, too, and it’ll go a long way toward making a piece you can be proud of, both for the process of it as well as the final product.

What’s next for you?

I’m writing Alto the Musical, revising the outline now, and having a fantastic time going back into the material and mining it for different elements. I’m also revising, with a co-writer, a quirky comedy pilot that we might wind up turning into webisodes. I have a detective novel I’d started writing before Alto went into pre-production, and I’m hoping to direct again soon. I’m also spending a lot of time trying to get the word about Alto out there. If anyone is interested in helping with that, say the word!

Mikki, congratulations once again and I wish you the very best for ”Alto” and look forward to your next film.

In Michael J. Saul’s “The Surface” an aimless young man happens upon a yard sale, where he’s drawn to a vintage 8mm camera. His impromptu purchase awakens unexpected impulses, both artistic and personal, which adjust his life’s course and set him on unfamiliar paths toward illuminating destinations. Evan—played with great delicacy by lithe newcomer Harry Hains—is a waiflike, orphaned 22-year-old who grew up in the foster care system and is still feeling unmoored as he enters adulthood in Los Angeles. He is uninspired by his college classes, growing frustrated with his increasingly critical boyfriend, and eager to find something meaningful and fulfilling to connect to in his life. The 8mm camera quickly becomes the creative outlet he’d sought, and he dives headlong into his new hobby. Evan returns to the home of the elderly man who sold him the camera, in search of additional filmmaking equipment, and he ends up leaving with a stash of the family’s old home movies. The quietly poignant films feed Evan’s creativity, providing a (projected) family he never had and sparking not only an intimacy with the family’s past but also a surprising connection to its present.

“The Surface” will be shown at the Castro Theatre Sunday, June 27 at 6 p.m. as part of Frameline39: The San Francisco International LGBTQ Film Festival (which started off back in 1977 with one evening of short Super8 films projected on a bedsheet).  Director Michael J. Saul, Actors Harry Hains, Kyle Patrick Darling, Michael Redford, Producer Heath Daniels are expected to attend.  Frameline runs from June 18-28 at five different Bay Area venues including the landmark Castro Theatre.

We chatted with Michael about “The Surface,” his film career, and other topics.

Congratulations on “The Surface” which is an incredible film for a first feature length film. How did the story come to you?

Thank you! The main theme of the story was created out of the loss of my parents about six years ago. My father and grandfather had been avid home movie enthusiasts and through my family’s love of these films, they survived very well. So, after my parents passed, I started looking through them and watching myself grow-up in 8mm films. When I mentioned to friends that I had these films, many were jealous and wondered what it was like to have my childhood chronicled in that way. That lead to the idea that a character that had no past, no family ties might meet someone who did possess these treasures and become entwined with him because of his history – almost acquiring someone else’s history for his own. The idea that Evan might be a foster child with no parents or connection to his own past would become the central theme of the story.

Talk about your process as a screenwriter. How quickly are you able to get your ideas expressed on the page? What is your approach to re-writes?

I don’t consider writing my first love or finest creative ability, especially when it comes to dialogue. I tend to write dialogue through my own voice, which doesn’t always translate well to other characters, especially younger ones. I always encourage my cast to improvise dialogue whenever they feel necessary to ring true to the character – and they almost always create better dialogue than I did! However, I think I write fairly good descriptive text on the scene and the feelings of the characters. I tend to break all the rules of screenwriting because; ultimately I am the only one to judge the script.
“The Surface” was roughed out in about a month, with two more versions after that before putting the finishing touches on a shooting script. Once we began filming, the script changed on a daily basis as new ideas, variations on scenes or happy accidents presented themselves that ended up in the final film.
As both writer and director of “The Surface” do you see complete images as you’re writing and how do those images change once you’re on the set?

I do. I’m primarily a visual artist and am ‘optically addicted’. I tend to collect images from books, blogs, websites and anywhere else I can to help convey the movie to others. Even the cast gets a copy of the script accompanied by images, music and videos that help tell the story. So writing then becomes using my imagination, images and videos I’ve seen to help put the film on the page as best I can. There are also lots of times on the set or when you see a new location that ideas change and become these wonderful little moments in the film that you could never have planned.

How many folks do you show your screenplay to during the writing and re-writing process and how open are you to both criticism and suggestions?

Typically I have about three people who read the script. One is my producing partner Heath Daniels who has a great bullshit meter; one is a good friend who is an accomplished writer, and another good friend who knows me very well. These are all people who I trust to tell me when I’m on the right track and sometimes point out issues I never thought of. They also know my body of work and my approach to filmmaking – so they tend to offer up criticism that is helpful to me rather than expressing their own taste. But ultimately, staying true to my vision and my personal story-telling style is most important to me.

The main characters are enriched by compelling backstories and many interesting layers that are revealed as the story progresses. Would you consider this a character-driven film and is that how you prefer to tell your stories?

Definitely. I love all kinds of movies but the ones that stay with me, the ones I think about for days, months or years are the ones about people. I find characters to be fascinating and they absolutely drive my films. Stories are the same but the characters within the story are what can surprise and change us. I credit the cast with creating much of the character backstories that you see. We worked together for months before filming just talking about these people, aspects of their lives that might not even show up on the screen. They all really took this task very seriously and made it a joy for me to watch as their characters unfolded.
Your lead actors are very talented and bring astounding depth to the film. Talk about how you managed to find and cast such wonderful actors.

I knew early on this film would be a challenge to cast. My producing partner Heath Daniels and I had worked together on other film projects such as “Go Go Reject” and “Adults Only”. I admired Heath for his ability to find extraordinary actors not only for the principles, but to inhabit every nook and corner of the frame. So in addition to his duties as co-producer, I asked him to cast the film. We had worked with Michael Redford on “Adults Only” and though he had a small part in that film, we knew we wanted to work with him again. He came in and nailed the part immediately. Nicholas McDonald originally read for Fish, the character now played by Kyle Patrick Darling, but we saw an amazing representation of Chris in him that we just fell in love with, kind of the Andrew McCarthy character from “Pretty in Pink”. We then saw a number of very talented actors for Evan but had a lot of difficulty finding the right one. When Harry Hains came in I was a bit worried that he might be too soft for the role, but during rehearsals he really came through, creating this wonderful, faceted character.

Chemistry is always of great concern when a relationship is explored on film and “The Surface” serves up two very different, realistic pairings. What’s your secret as director for recognizing that certain special spark between actors?

It absolutely begins with casting. You can see very quickly if people like each other and can act together. When this cast came together for the first time, it was clear they were going to create something wonderful together, and that’s just how it happened. If the casting is good then my job as the director is to get out of the way most of the time. I think these things work best when they’re organic. For the three leads it’s also important to let them get to know each other outside of the production, especially if they have intimate scenes. We always encourage them to go to dinner or have a ‘date’ if you will, just to connect on a different level and find some common threads in their own lives. It’s extremely helpful.
Your film maintains an even steady somber tone, which perfectly reflects its theme. Is this something you are aware of during the entire process of bringing “The Surface” to the screen.

I fight with it. People who see the early cuts will always pressure me to lighten it, add something more fun or a way to escape from the mood of the piece, but I have a hard time with that. If it helps the story, if it seems necessary then I add it in, otherwise I feel the mood tells a lot of the story. The scenes with Chris’s friends, the party scenes – those all help to reach outside of Evan’s point of view and breathe a little air into the film, otherwise it really is the world through Evan’s eyes. I wanted there to be an innocence to his view that sets the mood and maintains the vision of the story.
How did you go about getting the production funded? Did you have a budget in mind which you were you able to maintain or were you forced to scale back your vision?
We did a fairly unsuccessful crowd funding campaign and the rest came directly from me unfortunately. However, when starting a film project I firmly believe that once the train starts out of the station, people jump on – and that’s what happened. We found many ‘angels’ who supplied locations, goods and services, cooked for us… that ‘s what making a film is all about for me.
Our friend Stephanie Lehrer for instance allowed us to use her home as the location for Peter’s house, helped us fill in cast and crew whenever we had the need, and generally became our production ‘mom’, that’s why I made her Associate Producer!
I always have to scale back my production a little but luckily for “The Surface”, that was very little.
Tell us about the talented crew that helped you bring your film to life. Are they a combination of seasoned professionals, longtime colleagues, and bright young things?

All of the above. Heath Daniels as I’ve mentioned is always fantastic on the set, he is the Yin to my Yang and sees things I don’t. He doubled as casting director but also dressed everyone. I had a small camera crew including Lauren Peele and Megan McCarthy, location sound by Roana Wullinger, wonderful make-up artists Ricky Flores, Naomi Lark and Lindsay Skinner and set decorators Brandy Maasch and Gina Nasser. It was quite an eclectic group of seasoned pros and young filmmakers and everyone got on wonderfully.

Will this be your first time presenting a film at Frameline? It will be you first feature, so tell us what that means to you as an out filmmaker?

“Go Go Reject” was our first film at Frameline in 2010 and it was such a magical, wonderful experience I always hoped to be invited back. It’s such a supportive community up there and we can’t wait for our premiere.

I’ve been making films and screening in festivals for about 30 years. My films have always had a gay viewpoint in one-way or another. To me, being an out filmmaker is really just so natural. I’ve never shied away from incorporating my sexuality into my work and I’ve always been accepted as a gay filmmaker. I’ve always felt that weaving our stories into the fabric of all film history was more important than being separated by our sexuality. I’d like to see a time when our films become more accepted in the mainstream and not just thought of as “gay film”.
What manners of distribution are you considering for “The Surface?”

Right now we’re just beginning to field offers and interests in distribution, and we are open to all mediums old and new.

You’ve directed many short films. Talk about some of your absolute favorites.

I have a deep emotion for my early works with composer Steven M. Miller, who just passed away last year. They’re short and technically gritty, but very meaningful to me. Of our recent work though, I love “Go Go Reject” because it was the first time anyone asked me to direct a comedy – and it was a great ride. It’s such a fun film. “Adults Only” is one of the most difficult films I’ve ever worked on. It was more intense than most feature films, but the final product is one of great beauty and I’m very proud of it.
You have a real talent for creating engaging short films, which is not an easy task. Talk about what elements need to come together to make a short film resonate with an audience.

Once again I think compelling characters and an interesting idea that we haven’t seen before. If you can engage an audience by showing them something that surprises them or makes them emotional in some way, you’ve found a good story for a short film. After that, you have to be, or hire a great editor. All films are about editing but shorts, by their very nature are about editing the idea down to its simplest terms.
Do you feel cutting your filmmaker’s teeth creating short films was the best route for you?

I love short-form filmmaking and always have. My previous features “True Love” and “Crush” were both made up of short stories. I found it an easy way to continue my love of short-form story telling while exposing my work to a larger audience. I think we all start out making short films because we can’t afford anything else, but making a good short will teach you almost everything you need to know about filmmaking. It’s a great way to get started.
What advice would you offer filmmakers out there who are plugging away to make their film, tell their story?

You have to make it. Just make it. If you have a great story to tell you won’t be happy until you get it on the screen. I know people who have been developing the same script for 15 years. It may actually be made some day, but I’m just too impatient, myself. Every couple of years I have to make a film or go crazy. As I said before, if you start it, people will come to you. People and opportunities and ideas and equipment and things you never thought were right in front of you. So, just make your film.
What’s next up for you?

I have a stack of scripts I’ve written over the years and I’m slowly picking away at them. After “The Surface” is out in the world, I’ll decide what the next project will be. I never really know until it hits me one day.

Michael, congratulations once again and I wish you the very best for ”The Surface” and look forward to your next film.

Thank you so much!